My Experience with Art Rage (so far)

[UndyingSong]

My experience with Art Rage so far (the latest version, most recent updates)

#1 Problem: The program is slow. Compared to programs like Open Canvas (1.1 or higher), Art Rage runs SLOOOW. I cannot hope to ever complete an image that is 2000 x 2000 pixels in size or higher, even though Open Canvas (the higher versions) have more options and can handle that or higher sizes just fine, no problem. For some reason Art Rage seems to require more ram, I believe? Unfortunately, my cheap lap top cannot recieve anymore RAM upgrades, and I cannot afford to buy a new lap top at the moment.

Solution(?): Is there a way to make Art Rage faster, for the folk with less powerful computers? The other versions of Art Rage had this problem too. Could it also be the coding, somehow? Maybe there is a way to make it more compact?


#2 Problem: Only one file can be open at one time. Again, I must compare Art Rage to Open Canvas because that is the only other painting and drawing progam I use on a regular basis. In Open Canvas, I can have several paintings open at one time and be working on them without any problems whatsoever. Why is it that Art Rage cannot do the same, even though Open Canvas has more options?

Solution(?): I do not know what to suggest, could this be fixed in the future?


#3 Problem: Speed painting is not possible. This might have to do with the aforementioned speed issue, but there seems to be annoying "lag" when it comes to strokes (Open Canvas does not have this lag), regardless of the size of the painting. When I am in the heat of the moment (which happens everytime I paint or draw), I cannot help but work with very quick strokes, picking the pen up quickly and putting it back down to make another mark. The problem is that the strokes do not seem to "flow" correctly . . . Art Rage does not seem to "register" that I have put the pen's nib back down on the tablet's surface until it is too late. The result is that if I am aiming for a mark that is, let us say, "______" this long, I instead am given a mark that is approximately "__" this long.

Solution(?): I am not sure how to fix this, but I can add that the other versions of Art Rage also seemed to have this issue.


#4 Problem: Reference images now have a magnifying glass icon and an intersecting arrows icon above them. These are very much in the way - my reference images always consist of my color palletes, so that I can choose whatever color I need at the time. These icons cover up some of the colors so that I cannot access them. Why are these icons even there? I could just as easily choose the magnifying glass or the intersecting arrows icons that are available to me just at the bottom of the screen.

Solution(?): These could be removed all together as far as I am concerned, or there should at least be a way to turn these icons off, so that they do not block some of the reference image.

By the way, if by chance any of you need a copy of Open Canvas for comparison, 1.1 has always been free - It certainly doesn't have as many options as the higher versions, but those have to be paid for. Just let me know if you want me to send 1.1 your way, unless you have it already. The program can also be googled and downloaded from various locations.


Sorry for all of the negativities, so here come the praises...
Praise #1: Oh my God, the TEXTURES!! They are so wonderful. I am in awe of their realism!! Not a single person (these consist of more artistically-inclined folk who work in the digital as well as traditional realm) I have shown my Art Rage images to could even tell that they _were not_ done with real paint, or real pencil, or chalk, etc.

Please continue stressing the realistic look, feel and use of Art Rage. Time and time again it has been compared to Painter ... And I find it to be much, much better than Painter in terms of quality AND price. Art Rage should cost much more than what is charged. I want to suggest that you raise the price of the program, _at least_ a little bit. I might have missed this somewhere, but is there a way I could donate money to the cause? : )

Praise #2: It LOOKS good! The look of Art Rage is so unique, sleek and gorgeous. It is a very pleasant experience to just open Art Rage and look around and experiment with the various tools. Photoshop and other more "popular" programs are just so ugly in comparison.

Praise #3 The recent "paint thinner" addition. This is one of the things I have been waiting anxiously for. Because of the way the thinned paint can be layered, I know I'll be using Art Rage that much more now. It feels nice to use, and it LOOKS great!

Praise #4 The recent layer options. Thanks to the "Multiply" mode, I was able to finally delete Photoshop from my lap top yesterday. The only time I ever used Photoshop was to make my line art transparent. : )


One last thing, a question: This is something else that can be done in Open Canvas, but I have not found a way to do it in Art Rage yet (still looking!) - Once I have done "inking" on a separate layer, is there a way to "color" the inked layer alone without influencing the other layers? For example, let's say I am drawing an evil troll or something, and I have the sketch on one layer, then the black ink layer, and then another layer with the coloring.. But then I decide, belatedly unfortunately, that I would have preffered the ink on the inked layer to be red instead of black, because red looks more menacing and troll-like. Is there a way to accomplish this?

Well, this is all I can think of, for now. . .

[UndyingSong]

While I was working on a painting in Art Rage, my desire for the following option became increasingly strong.


I would like the ability to "move" the painting around on the canvas, for compositional purposes. The intersecting arrows allow the artist to move the canvas itself, but what about the option to move the painting upon the canvas? This would also be a very quick way to "clear" the canvas (by moving the painting completely off of the canvas), or rearange a sketch, and so forth.

Thoughts?

[justG]

Some of your concerns about ArtRage require a paradigm shift to "fix."

The memory management problem is a very real problem, one that's been documented and discussed here. The dev team have stated that optimising AR's use of resources is a priority for future revisions of the application.

The bottom line, I think, is that AR is designed to simulate natural media and a real-life painting/drawing environment. So moving things around on a canvas wouldn't fit within that paradigm. That doesn't mean that your request/complaint isn't a valid one, not at all. I'm just saying that the application in its present incarnation is still in its infancy. We users are now starting to make demands that won't "break" AR's "philosophy," but will either enable us to abandon other applications or just in general make life easier for us. And in every case, I think it's pretty clear that the AR dev team are receptive to our feedback and consider everything we suggest.

My point is that your comparison (in terms of features) between AR and OC might be a bit unfair. AR was designed to be "this," and OC was designed to be "that." It doesn't mean that AR cannot evolve--it has and it will continue to do so--but we've got to give it that chance. I mean, if I wanted all the features of OC, then I would just use OC. Y'know?

.g

[UndyingSong]

The memory management problem is a very real problem, one that's been documented and discussed here. The dev team have stated that optimising AR's use of resources is a priority for future revisions of the application.
I'm sorry, but where did they say this? I barely had enough free time to type all of my concerns out, let alone sift through every other topic to find where my issues had already been addressed.
In any case, I am happy to hear that this is already being looked into. : )




The bottom line, I think, is that AR is designed to simulate natural media and a real-life painting/drawing environment. So moving things around on a canvas wouldn't fit within that paradigm.
I already made it clear that I am all for the natural media. In fact, I praised it in my post. Among the many positive things I said in regards to this was, "Please continue stressing the realistic look, feel and use of Art Rage."
Moving things around on a canvas isn't natural, no, but neither are the varying layer options, or the ability to use colored pencils over oil paint, or blend ink with chalk (I used to try the two aforementioned things when I was little, heh.)





That doesn't mean that your request/complaint isn't a valid one, not at all. I'm just saying that the application in its present incarnation is still in its infancy. We users are now starting to make demands that won't "break" AR's "philosophy," but will either enable us to abandon other applications or just in general make life easier for us. And in every case, I think it's pretty clear that the AR dev team are receptive to our feedback and consider everything we suggest.
I am not demanding the above. I use Art Rage frequently, and I would like to be able to use it in a professional way as well, meaning I would like for Art Rage to be able to handle large files so that I can make prints to sell. Right now I can only experiment with small files. But, I do not expect every single request / suggestion that I give to actually make it into future versions.




My point is that your comparison (in terms of features) between AR and OC might be a bit unfair. AR was designed to be "this," and OC was designed to be "that." It doesn't mean that AR cannot evolve--it has and it will continue to do so--but we've got to give it that chance. I mean, if I wanted all the features of OC, then I would just use OC. Y'know?
No, I don't think it is unfair. I was making comparisons between the two programs because they are the main ones I use, and I use them both every day (i.e. I am giving Art Rage much more than a simple "chance" : )). Open Canvas works for me in some ways, Art Rage in others. Unfortunately, Open Canvas (1.1) has its perks for me because I can work at sizes large enough to make good prints (and thus provide me with some money I can use to get food with and in turn not die of starvation ; )), and there is no lag even when I want to make the brush a very huge size. I can continue painting to my heart's content without worrying about lag making my lines go awry. For me, a line doing something I don't want it to do even when I am being precise is akin to an English major(of which I am not) accidentally using incorrect grammar, or a musician being off-key... It is just very frustrating, y'know?

I do not want all of the features of Open Canvas. There are lots of things that Art Rage can do that Open Canvas cannot. If I suggest a feature that I say is already in Open Canvas, it is because it was extremely helpful to me, and might also be very helpful to others.

[Levent Suberk]

The program is slow. Compared to programs like Open Canvas (1.1 or higher), Art Rage runs SLOOOW.
No, it is fast. I have Celeron 950 Mhz, 256 Mb RAM, 32 Mb TNT2 VGA PC and ArtRage runs fast.

Only one file can be open at one time.
Open one file at one time.

Speed painting is not possible. This might have to do with the aforementioned speed issue, but there seems to be annoying "lag" when it comes to strokes (Open Canvas does not have this lag), regardless of the size of the painting.
Speed painting is possible, there isn't any lag.

I downloaded and tried that Open Canvas 4.06, but didn't like it, and uninstalled. ArtRage is the best software, second to none.

[justG]

I'm sorry, but where did they say this? This is not comprehensive like some of Andy's other posts, but it's the first one I found:

http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105

I barely had enough free time to type all of my concerns out, let alone sift through every other topic to find where my issues had already been addressed. In any case, I am happy to hear that this is already being looked into. : )
Hey, I hear ya. I didn't really have time to look properly for you either. It's just I have complained about it in the past, so I knew it had been mentioned. I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't mention it again. =)


Moving things around on a canvas isn't natural, no, but neither are the varying layer options...
You're right. That's why I said, "We users are now starting to make demands that won't 'break' AR's 'philosophy,' but will either enable us to abandon other applications or just in general make life easier for us."

For me, a line doing something I don't want it to do even when I am being precise is akin to an English major(of which I am not) accidentally using incorrect grammar, or a musician being off-key... It is just very frustrating, y'know? Absolutely.

If I suggest a feature that I say is already in Open Canvas, it is because it was extremely helpful to me, and might also be very helpful to others. Fair enough. It wasn't my intention to in any way denigrate your opinion of and aspirations for ArtRage. I love the application, but I don't believe in narrow-minded "fanboy-mentality" retorts that refuse to acknowledge that there is always room for improvement. One of the coolest things about this community is that the developers happen to agree that AR has plenty of room for growth and tweaking. So stick around! You may be very pleasantly surprised by how much your input actually matters around here. =)

[AndyRage]

Heck I'm the first to admit we have a lot of stuff still to put into ArtRage.

And we're not so arrogant as to suggest ArtRage is a replacement for your other graphics apps either - we're happy to work alongside other applications.

We're continuing to grow, and we've got a bunch more features to give to users in the next update.
And we thrive on criticism - it helps us focus on the features that are important to our users.

[UndyingSong]

The program is slow. Compared to programs like Open Canvas (1.1 or higher), Art Rage runs SLOOOW.
No, it is fast. I have Celeron 950 Mhz, 256 Mb RAM, 32 Mb TNT2 VGA PC and ArtRage runs fast.
If Art Rage runs so quickly, then why do I experience so much lag? My Art Rage files tend to be no more than 1000 x 1000 pixels, and I get very much lag. It might run quickly for you, but that has not been my experience.


Only one file can be open at one time.
Open one file at one time.
I was suggesting that it would be nice to be able to open more than one file at a time, thanks. It is useful when one is pressed for time.


Speed painting is not possible. This might have to do with the aforementioned speed issue, but there seems to be annoying "lag" when it comes to strokes (Open Canvas does not have this lag), regardless of the size of the painting.
Speed painting is possible, there isn't any lag.
Once again, this is your experience, not mine. I'd love to be able to, like you, boast about how I am able to paint very quickly in the program, but the lag always causes the lines to be jagged instead of smooth.
I'm very glad that it is working well for you, but please do not keep insisting that there isn't any lag when I know for a fact that there is, at least for me.


I downloaded and tried that Open Canvas 4.06, but didn't like it, and uninstalled. ArtRage is the best software, second to none.
Good. I personally find all of the other Open Canvas programs (except for the original 1.1) inferior. The blending tool in 1.1 is much more realistic, and the higher the Open Canvas version goes, the more like photoshop it seems to get, which I personally do not like.
Saying that Art Rage is the best software, though, is again your opinion however.
Like I already said, I'd love for it to be one of the only programs I use, but things like the lag do me in. Other than that and the other things I mentioned, it is one of my favorite programs. Thanks for your reply, though, despite the fact it was pretty obvious that you were attempting to be at least somewhat arrogant to me. I was simply trying to show my own experience with Art Rage to the team. =\

[UndyingSong]

I'm sorry, but where did they say this? This is not comprehensive like some of Andy's other posts, but it's the first one I found:

http://www2.ambientdesign.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=105
Thank you for finding that for me!! I appreciate that. I see what you mean, now.

I barely had enough free time to type all of my concerns out, let alone sift through every other topic to find where my issues had already been addressed. In any case, I am happy to hear that this is already being looked into. : )

Hey, I hear ya. I didn't really have time to look properly for you either. It's just I have complained about it in the past, so I knew it had been mentioned. I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't mention it again. =)
Ah, I gotcha. No problem. The link you found was just fine, and thank you again for that.



Moving things around on a canvas isn't natural, no, but neither are the varying layer options...
You're right. That's why I said, "We users are now starting to make demands that won't 'break' AR's 'philosophy,' but will either enable us to abandon other applications or just in general make life easier for us."
Ahh, all right. That is true.[/quote]


For me, a line doing something I don't want it to do even when I am being precise is akin to an English major(of which I am not) accidentally using incorrect grammar, or a musician being off-key... It is just very frustrating, y'know? Absolutely.
We shall lament together, in that case! :lol:


If I suggest a feature that I say is already in Open Canvas, it is because it was extremely helpful to me, and might also be very helpful to others. Fair enough. It wasn't my intention to in any way denigrate your opinion of and aspirations for ArtRage. I love the application, but I don't believe in narrow-minded "fanboy-mentality" retorts that refuse to acknowledge that there is always room for improvement. One of the coolest things about this community is that the developers happen to agree that AR has plenty of room for growth and tweaking. So stick around! You may be very pleasantly surprised by how much your input actually matters around here. =)
I absolutely intended to stick around, regardless. :D
I look forward to the updates, and to what I might be able to accomplish with the program right now. The responsiveness of this community is indeed wonderful.
There is always room for improvement, when it comes to anything, I agree. Thank you for your reply!

[UndyingSong]

Heck I'm the first to admit we have a lot of stuff still to put into ArtRage.
I was serious when I mentioned that I wanted to donate money to the cause, by the way. Where do I go to do so? : )


And we're not so arrogant as to suggest ArtRage is a replacement for your other graphics apps either - we're happy to work alongside other applications.
To be honest, I was really looking forward to deleting Photoshop... I know I mentioned lag issues with Art Rage for myself, but Photoshop was much, much worse, and I was only using it for editing. : )


We're continuing to grow, and we've got a bunch more features to give to users in the next update.
And we thrive on criticism - it helps us focus on the features that are important to our users.
That is awesome! I'll try to keep giving more suggestions. I will most likely end up repeating myself, however, because I tend to forget if I've already mentioned something or not. I hope that is all right.
Thank you so much for your reply, Andy!

[AndyRage]

I was serious when I mentioned that I wanted to donate money to the cause, by the way. Where do I go to do so? : )


Thanks very much for the offer, but ArtRage sales are funding development quite well.
The best 'donations' you can make to ArtRage are to provide help to people on the forum, post artworks you've done, and post tips'n'tricks for how you did them.
And in the future there will be opportunities to produce additional 'content' for some of the new features going into ArtRage.

[AndyRage]

Actually... there is a way you can contribute...


ArtRage is relying on word-of-mouth advertising. We have virtually no advertising budget.
So it is worth gold to us if a well-known blogger talks about ArtRage, or if an article about ArtRage appears on a popular geek-news site.
So tell your nigh-profile internet contacts about ArtRage.
Write The Most Exciting News Story Ever about ArtRage, and see if you can get slashdot.com or digg.com to run it. If you see a story about ArtRage already on a big internet news site, you can often 'vote' for stories to make them more popular.
If you're on any other newsgroups, see if you can sneak in a thread about how ArtRage is the coolest thing since sliced bread.
Create the most exciting home movie ever in which somehow ArtRage is a central theme, then post it on YouTube.
Come up with other innovative ways to spread the ArtRage goodness.
Start a viral meme that makes everyone realize they cant live without ArtRage in their lives.

[Little_Artist]

I want to help too!

Only I am just a simple person. But would it help if I told about artrage on a free website or something, or would the website have to be famous?

I started several really really pretty pictures on ArtRage. I'm a better artist than it looks like from the scribbles I send here sometimes. But I lost them. I have to try to remembere to save and save really often because I have to jump away so often, but I never do remember, because impatient people make me nervous.

[el_diablo]

About the speed issue...

Artrage is about the fastest I've tried. PS CS2 is about 2x slower with the same brush size. Works fine with big canavases, as long as you have the RAM for it...tops out at about 8000x5000 with 2Gb RAM. Bigger than that and you hit the 32-bit OS/App limit and it brakes down.

Thats my expirience on about 3 different machines i tried it on.

[ScottC]

I would suggest that to the OP that your speed issues may be local. AR is definitely one of the most nimble paint sims Ive worked with, especially considering the in-built depth rendering aspects. The performance hit I get from turning on Impasto (depth effects) in Painter is far more severe.


Of course you can lag yourself out with larger brush sizes, but I start lagging in Painter IX.5 with smaller brushes than I do in AR.


Not only can you speedpaint in it, but it would be at the top of my list for an app I wanted to use to do so.


I work on a mid to low range system, albeit with copious amounts of ram (used for cpu based rendering, not vanity). You can guage the system specs against your own in order to better evaluate my remarks here:

AMD Athlon64 3500+
GF 6800GT 256 mb GPU
4 gigs of decent ram
winxp sp2

[royblumenthal]

What a cool thread.

It demonstrates for me pretty much WHY ArtRage is going to be the killer app that wipes other apps out.

Re the speed... my heartbleeds for you, UndyingSong. It's most likely a ram issue. Combined with a lowish speed processor. Combined with a small harddrive.

I HATE to make this suggestion, but I'm going to do it anyway... take your credit card, go to your nearest tablet pc shop, and buy the most powerful tablet pc you can put on that credit card. Do it. It'll pay for itself within five months.

If you're already making a living off your art using a NON-tablet pc, you'll leap up to the next level INSTANTLY with a tablet pc. I can tell you that it changed my life.

Blue skies
love
Roy

[royblumenthal]

Re Andy's request for viral marketing...

Hehehehe... I'm not the most well known blogger in the world, but my pages are hit 1200 times a week by 900 people a week. And ArtRage is linked to and attributed in every pic I make in ArtRage. Which is every pic I make nowadays. Cos I've removed Painter 9.5 and Sketchbook Pro from my quicklinks menu. I don't use them. Ever.

Also, my Flickr gallery is being viewed at least 95 times a day. And ArtRage is linked to in every pic.

I've just opened a button shop on Prickie.com. (It's at http://snipurl.com/buttonshop.) In my 'blurb' about myself, I have the following paragraph...


I work almost exclusively in a painting package called ArtRage, on a Toshiba Tecra M4 tablet PC.

That's actually supposed to have a link to Ambient Design, but it seems like the prickie guys left it off. I'll ask them to rectify that.

I submit an illustration every week to Illustration Friday, and, through that, I've had numerous comments on my blog to say, 'Thanks for the ArtRage link, Roy! I'm going to go and download it immediately!'

And last but not least... I was on the radio in South Africa every day for two weeks over the Christmas period with a geek slot. In it, I told people about Creative Commons. And as part of that, told them they could download any of my paintings for free. And I've blogged that. And podcast it. And my pics all have ArtRage links on them. (The blog post, with links to the podcast, is at: http://schmucknews.blogspot.com/2007/01/roy-blumenthals-virtual-surf-report.html.)

Blue skies
love
Roy